There is a 0% chance that the Ivy will pay a third party building. I long ago suggested the Westchester Arena and the Bridgeport one (on 95) and was shot down. As to MSG, it is the most expensive building around, is booked with the Big East and there is no way the Ivy would ever draw more than 6,000. That talk is crazy. The 2 most viable buildings remain the Palestra and Levien. 2027 at Cornell will be an epic disaster. It is so foolish that it actually will happen. And yes, the no. 1 seed should be rewarded. There are many ways.
If no other option is feasible, then the Palestra will do fine. I’m less concerned about the venue and more interested in giving the #1 seed a “games played” advantage.
The #4 seed and the #1 seed should not have to win the same amount of games on the same amount of rest when there has been anywhere from a 3-8 win gap between the two.
I agree in terms of the advantage but it also creates weird scenarios. Take for example this years MBB. Yale has clearly outperformed everyone else, and they should be compensated for that, and the current system gives them very little advantage. On contrast, last two years, the WBB first seed has been decided via tie-breaker with NET seeding. Is it fair that, between two teams that did the same regular season, one would get a significant advantage over the other just because of a ranking that is not really acurate at identifying small differences, but rather gives a good overall picture?
I think we are forgetting the landscape of the rest of college basketball. Basically every other one-bid league puts their one seed thru at least 3 games to reach MM, save for conferences like the Sun Belt which offer significant advantages to the top seeds at the expense of creating some monstrosity of a bracket. The Ivy remains much more just in terms of # of games that the top seed has to play thru, while also keeping the intensity that a one-bid league tournament should be. If we are talking about fairness, no, nothing in college basketball is completely fair. Fairness is sacrificed for entertainment value. Yale getting their auto-bid already would be boring as hell and take away from the magic that the 24-25 Ivy season still has to offer.
Maybe it is because I am relatively newer to following Ivy basketball, and I was not following the league when older fans experienced the loss of Ivy League purism when the tourney format was adopted. But compared to the rest of CBB and the many strange neutral site tournaments with larger brackets, the Ivy is in my opinion one of the most fun to watch and certainly on the more just end of the sport.
Gonzo,
I agree completely. Last year was unbelievably exciting for several teams, especially Brown. Without the tournament, this year would be a yawnfest for the last three games, but now there are five teams playing for three spots. Yale will have its crown regardless; the tournament makes us dance instead.
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I agree that the number one seed has to be rewarded. What about this: In both games the #1 seed plays, their opposition has to install Jim Engles as their interim coach for the game.
The number 1 seed gets rewarded by playing the 4th seed in a 2 game tournament. That’s good enough and easier than many other 1 bid leagues. If Yale can win the regular season and take down Auburn, as Ivy fans almost expect, they should be able to handle the current format. On the women’s side, Columbia doesn’t have to play Harvard or Princeton which is a big advantage. Agree that we need a decent neutral location.
To play devil’s advocate for a second, Brown had the tournament locked up last year if it wasn’t for an improbable Yale comeback. Brown thus would’ve been a 16 seed and almost assuredly gotten blown out. Anything can happen in this tournament. We’ve been somewhat lucky so far that no complete outlier has took it home yet.
I’m still very pro Ivy Madness. Something in Kathy Orton’s book Outside the Limelight from the early-mid 2000s made an imprint on me. She was interviewing several graduating seniors during the season who had come to the realization after a few early losses that basketball was not as important as it had been. They had zero chance of a NCAA bid, limited fanfare, and their studies were more important. I prefer these late regular season games mattering for the whole league. Without the tournament, these last 3 games for everyone would be meaningless.
I agree. Prior to the league tournament, if a team started 1-3 the season was probably over. It was a lot of Friday and Saturday back-to-backs with nothing on the line. Making the field of 4 is expected for a few teams but an important benchmark for most of the league.
Here’s a simple idea. Allocate tickets based on seeding. Yale gets more tickets than, say, a 4th place Brown who is the host.
That is just silly. The goal is to fill the building ad the host has the best chance to bring in biggest numbers if the host has a participant. The only true exception was Levien since Yale and Princeton have a huge alumni base in NYC and also are close to Levien. Dartmouth and then Cornell are just plain dumb. Can you imagine next year if Dartmouth is not in it and the final is, say Yale-Brown. Tell me the attendance?
There is zero chance they expand the tournament or put the 1 seed in the final without playing. They also don’t have plans to move to an alternate site.
Last season’s Ivy madness at Levien solidified for me why the Tournament is beautiful in its current form. The energy, drama, surprise, heartbreak and unrestrained fun packed into two days was a gift, and one we can enjoy every year. We are not a Power 4 conference. If an Ivy team advances a round or two in the NCAAs every once in a while, so much the better. But I wouldn’t kill off the entire second half of the season for most teams and lose out on the joy of the final weekend just to maximize the odds of someone winning an NCAA game.
Much of the fun of the tournament is reconnecting with friends and interacting with rival fans. I bumped into old Brown classmates I hadn’t seen in years, plus friends from Yale and Princeton. Some of my best Brown basketball moments, now, are from after the Princeton game, running into the Brown '86 team at a neighborhood pub, chatting with Princeton fans, etc. I wouldn’t change a thing, other than possibly rotating through NYC or Philly more regularly, given the large fan bases within easy travelling distance. But hosting, especially if your school participates, is wonderful too, and each venue/town will be fun in its own way.
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Hats off to the '86 Brown squad. Ivy champs and had an early lead over Syracuse in the NCAA tourney. The Orange had Pearl, Rony Seikaly, Rafael Addison and Wendall Alexis that year if my memory is correct.
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Everything has tradeoffs. The relatively tiny number of people who attend the folly and enjoy it don’t weigh much against the danger of sending a weak team to the Big Dance due to a fluky result. The excitement generated for the last few games for the medicore teams trying to get into the ILT is at least balanced by the loss of interest for fans of the teams that otherwise would be competing for the autobid durng the regular season.
But as long as we’re stuck with this turkey, could we at least have the 1-4 semifinal not be at 11:00AM? That seems to really penalize the regular-season champion.
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